Curse

Lexar · May 28, 2006, 10:10 PM // 22:10

Haven't thought of a name yet, but the idea came to me when I thought about what the game would have been like if meteor showers would hit all players in the range instead of just the enemies. Kinda doesn't make sense that your allies stand in explosions and stuff.

So the spirit works like this: all AoE dmg, all wards, all wells, all group enchants, all traps, hurt and benefit both allies and enemies, if they are within range of the spirit. It would probably cause some massive unbalancing, but it would reward coordinates teams so much and totally adds a new twist to the game.

Maybe Spirit of Consequenses would work as a name, since now you can feel the consequenses of your own attacks.

Of course this would be another reason to be weary of aoe dmg in pve, so maybe to counter this, single target dmg should be decreased and aoe dmg should be (ever so gently) increased.

DC_Ross_Dark · May 28, 2006, 10:27 PM // 22:27

lol, well does this include the caster? because imagine if an ele were to cast flame burst and deal 115 dmg to himself ><. That would totaly cause an EoE trend.

Jestah · May 28, 2006, 11:01 PM // 23:01

lol, it'd also make balth's aura a suicide skill since you cant even run from it. Funny, maybe but I don't see it happening.

Maria The Princess · May 28, 2006, 11:27 PM // 23:27

lol double dragon would be the worst elite possible... and how about water magic? slow down yourself AND foes?

EDIT: there would be no more point in Minion masters.

the minions will be killed by eles AoE and SS guys. even barrage arrows will occasionaly hit allys

Lexar · May 28, 2006, 11:47 PM // 23:47

that's 3 posts that start with 'lol' so indeed this skill must be funny

Puts skills in a completely different light ^^

I think the caster though should be spared because he's the one doing the skill after all. It's just that there's no more distinction between friend or foe as far as targets go.

Mercury Angel · May 28, 2006, 11:58 PM // 23:58

For the most part, opportunities to grief other players are undesirable. One of the few ways to do it is to summon minions and turn them on your allies, and even that was eventually nerfed.

Such a spirit would likely find itself into a build for griefers, who use non-targeted spells to injure their allies for kills.

Apparently, people found that funny and enjoyable, although also lucrative in a way that wouldn't be replicated through this, when there was an exploit to become a third-party 'team' of your own in the arenas, killing off their former teammates who couldn't attack them back.

With that piece of history in mind, I would very much prefer that additional invitations to grief teammates NOT be put into the game.

And if this is a joke topic, well, it might actually be funny if the effects hadn't already been seen in action in the past, but personally, I'm not laughing. It's not distasteful, it's just a 'been there, done that' thing, and the reality was far less fun.

Opeth11 · May 29, 2006, 12:30 AM // 00:30

Can someone say 'shockwave'?

What a bomb.

Lexar · May 29, 2006, 01:10 AM // 01:10

I don't think this is really an opportunity to grief other players. First of all, you still can't select a teammate and use attacks on him, the idea is that teammembers might get in the way when you use an attack, thus you will have to coordinate better. However, other skills like wells, shouts, etc, used in the defence will also be given to the other team if they're standing close. The idea is more that what hurts them might also hurt you if you're not carefull, and what helps you, might also help them if they're close enough.

Also it's a spirit, so if someone has bad intentions he will have to take the spirit with him. It's not like it's an incredibly benificial skill to a team, so you probably won't see it around much. In that sense it's not more likely to be used to annoy a team than other spirits are right now, like frozen soil or nature's renewal can totally kill some builds. I don't want to give people ideas, but the tools to screw your party are all here already. For example using frozen soil in an Iway team or with a minion factory suicide mesmer after his first death.

Now to ease your state of mind I'll explain to you the idea behind this topic:for the most part this topic is more a 'what if' kind of topic. Like I said this would probably unbalance a lot of things, and make monks reconsider aegis, wards against foes would suddenyl not help for kiting, etc. What kind of new tactics would you see if there would be a sort of friendly fire? Would everyone just give up on aoe altogether? Maybe positioning like our great tactician advised us (hehe we know who this is) would come into play. Like you would suddenly have to stand behind rangers when they use barrage.

Jestah · May 29, 2006, 02:33 AM // 02:33

I thought you were joking so here's my serious comment. If this skill ever saw an introduction into the game and it got enough use (no doubt it'd be in some sort of fotm) any build likely to suffer by it would just take a whole load of spirit whacking skills. The obvious ones are Unnatural Signet or Consume Soul. I know you could stick it on an oath spammer but anything likely to mess a build up this badly would get a devoted mesmer spamming signet all day long.

Ok so you never said it'd be a good skill but if you want more reason...errm... I just plain don't like the idea :P

Obviously I'm speaking from a 8v8 PvP point of view. God only knows how badly it'd mess up PvE.

bilateralrope · May 29, 2006, 06:02 AM // 06:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lexar

I don't think this is really an opportunity to grief other players. First of all, you still can't select a teammate and use attacks on him, the idea is that teammembers might get in the way when you use an attack, thus you will have to coordinate better. However, other skills like wells, shouts, etc, used in the defence will also be given to the other team if they're standing close. The idea is more that what hurts them might also hurt you if you're not carefull, and what helps you, might also help them if they're close enough.

Assuming its a ranger spirit

E/R, cast spirit, use point blank AOE on your teammates. They die before timer reaches 0 and have no way to counter as they are in a confined area.

W/R, cast spirit, go into your enemies and shout.

Undivine · May 29, 2006, 09:24 AM // 09:24

Indeed. No offense, but this spirit should not be taken seriously. You are basically handing people a greifing tool, and really that is the only purpose it can serve. Nobody would bring it unless it is for malicious reasons.

bilateralrope · May 29, 2006, 10:51 AM // 10:51

Oh, I can see it being useful in GvG to make attacking the lord through the bodyguards and enemy team eaiser as their firestorm slaughters their own team.

If it was a monster-only skill and did hurt the AOE caster, it would force elems to try builds other than AOE. I say make it monster only, and cover parts of the next chapter main storyline with enemies using it.

Lexar · May 29, 2006, 11:34 AM // 11:34

Well ok I understand that people can abuse this, but my point is that if people want to, they can do something like this already with current spirits. Or even just plain go afk as the main healing monk. Also, you can't actually target your teammembers and attack them. So you can't do anything when there's no enemies around anyway. The idea is that if you do a big attack on an enemy, you suddenly need the coordination in your team to clear away from the blast area. The spirit doesn't turn everyone into targets you can attack, it just makes aoe dmg also hurt partymembers.
In fact the dmg doesn't even have to be 100% of what the enemies are getting, it could also be 25% or 50%. And of course all the wells and wards become more position-oriented, because they work for both teams. So there's very little advantage if you use it the wrong way, like spamming it.

Alternatively you could just give people a permanent title they can't remove or replace that says they're teamkillers, that lasts a week or a month or something. So they can't find any groups anymore after griefing.

Aera · May 29, 2006, 12:56 PM // 12:56

Haha trapping should be fun...you lay a spiketrap and you get crippled yourself

TurinPT · May 29, 2006, 01:00 PM // 13:00

how about this for a name: 'Chaos'

Undivine · May 29, 2006, 05:36 PM // 17:36

Well, apart from being prone to abuse, it's also prone to stupidity.

bilateralrope · May 29, 2006, 10:06 PM // 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lexar

Also, you can't actually target your teammembers and attack them.

The skills that can be used with that spirit for teamkilling witout nearby enemies, I may of missed some

Muddy Terrain (slows them down so they can't run away as quickly)

Frozen Burst
Flame burst
Flame burst
Lava front
Inferno
Crystal Wave
Whirlwind
Balthazars Aura
Cyclone axe (if effected)

So making it a player skill opens up an obvious area of griefing. Make it monster only.

shardfenix · May 29, 2006, 10:36 PM // 22:36

I like the idea. It would be the perfect counter to the currently-overpowered dual smite group. Although, the idea of flame burst/balths aura is that there is damage AROUND the person, not actually in/on them, so it should do damage to allies and foes around them and not to themselves. However, spells like lava font, meteor shower, and other aoe would be affected by this.
Cute idea. Hope it gets seen in GW someday